Sep 19, 2007

Up and down

Traded JOYG long (10:50 bar, 5-min), FCX long (11:15 bar, 5-min) and then FCX short (11:15 bar, 15-min).
The FCX short helped saved the day. I actually would've been somewhat pleased with today's results if I hadn't bumbled my exits on JOYG and FCX long. But in the end, I took a .67R loss for all my hard work.
My FCX short pretty much had King Jamie's name all over it as it was a shooting star off of R2 (intraday pivot point resistance) on increased volume. I took it down to just above R1 and then bailed. I really like when intraday pivot areas line up with my 38.2% or 61.8% fib. levels.

Here's the chart:


greytrader said...

You are using pivot and fib now ? :-)
I worked hard for a measly .23R today.

Jerry said...

When do you normally move your stop?
Do you have your stop exactly at bar low?
Anyway, you still ended up keeping your cool and made it.

Great job!

OONR7 said...

gt: I've been looking for inside bar entries from Jamie's watchlist and I've been applying the intraday pivot points to determine the entry. When they line up with my normal entry areas... it's just like additional confirmation. I have to say... it's been challenging switching mental gears, but now I divide my watchlist into pivot candidates and normal candidates.
I really thought FCX was going to take off.

jerry: My initial stop is either at the opposite side of my entry bar or the 50% fib level. I move my stop once I see a candle that works against my position. Today's JOYG is a good example. I took a partial on a break of the 10:55 bar low (shooting star). Then, and this is where I bumbled (well, just missed) my exit... I should've sold all my shares on a break of the 11:25 bar low which was below the 5ema. But I didn't and had a take a larger loss because of it.

Jamie said...

JOYG long loss for me too. Revenge trade (short) worked very nicely.

Difficult day to trade. Stop outs and scratches were the order of the day. Only good ones were those that I anticipated ahead of time on daily timeframe. ARTC, for example, looked like it would fall down on the daily and it did. CREE 2 inside on daily was momo today. Too bad I missed the early move on CREE cause I was too busy fidgeting with losers like JOYG and SGR.

greytrader said...

So you scan 2 lists every five minutes ? I tried that for a while with alerts but there was too much going on... and I go through my list every 15 min :-) I did not have enough time to do my scans properly.

Do you now look for trades in the first five minutes after the open or do you still wait after 10:15 ?

Maybe the way to go about it is to concentrate on watch list pivot trades and skip gappers until I can handle both.

It seems Jamie always finds 3-5 trades a day. I find myself sitting on my hands a lot and once in a while I take a WTF trade...

OONR7 said...

jamie: today was weird... a lot of gap fades. If I didn't know the DOW was indeed up, I would surely think that it was a big down day after the open. I was also watching FWLT on the 15-min but chickened out shorting at R1. It set up a nice bear flag culminating with an NR7 (12:45 bar) right at R1. Very big drop afterwards.

OONR7 said...

gt: yes, I scan frequently, but I place alerts at all my potential entry areas so I don't need to scan all stocks, just the one where the alerts go off. For instance, if I'm looking to go long on a stock, I'll place an alert at the 38.2% level and wait for it to go off. So really, I'm not scanning that much. With pivot trades, I'm really sticking to inside bars (usually ones that happen on the 2nd bar) that are right near a pivot area (R &S). It's not a long list but I also apply alerts there.
I've kind come up with my own way of managing it all. With all my initial alerts... I have the symbol flashing in my portfolio. Once it goes off and move away from my entry, I reset the alert and then have a pop-up box appear. A bit of an artform.
I don't trade within the first five minutes, but I am pulling my IB scans right after 5 minutes and then loading in QT. I can usually sort through that list and apply all my fib. lines within 5 minutes. Then, I pull in my prophet scans. By 9:55, I'm looking at Jamie's list and dropping potential candidates into my active watchlist. Lately, I've been finished with finished watchlists, alerts and fib. lines by 10am. It sounds like a lot of work, but once you get a routine down, it goes by pretty quickly.
Also, I have a 5-min, 10-min and 15-min chart up on my screen at all times so I can scan 3 charts for signals in about 3 seconds. Ouch, I've got a headache just going over my whole routine right now.

Jamie said...


I was also watching FWLT. It started with what looked like an evening star on 15 min., fell down to R1, bounced and carved out NR inside at 11:15. Unfortunately, I was too busy managing my screw up on JOYG at that time. I see your bear flag - also good for 2+ points. The bear flag is the best because the trigger bar is very narrow. So, three bearish signals on one intraday chart.

greytrader said...

Do you only put Fib on one of your charts ? I have not figured out how to draw fib on the 15 min chart and have it display on the 10.

greytrader said...

If it is not too much trouble, could you someday post a screen capture of your setup ? I have 2 20 inch screen, what do you have ?

Thanks again for your help.

OONR7 said...

gt: Quotetracker has a feature where I can link all open charts together. So, when I draw fibs. on one chart... it adds it to all the others. I really don't have an elaborate setup right now, but I have a 17" monitor (from my desktop) hooked up to my laptop which has a 15" screen. I have one monitor just for the 5-min chart and the other monitor has the 10 and 15-min charts side-by-side with just enough space so I can see all the symbols and prices of my watchlist in the background. I'll try and take a photo for you soon.

OONR7 said...

jamie: I'm digging the pivots.

Jamie said...

Me too, extra confirmation when the setup lines up at the PP.

Flatwallet said...

we should have gotten on skype and bumbled JOYG together. Both our entries were the same and I'm sure both are exits were similar as well. Instead of capturing a part of that .50+ cent run up I captured 0. So I'm forced me to review my scaling out strategy.

Nice trade on FCX though.

John S. said...

Hey there,

Not sure I asked my question the other night on the stop-loss. I always put a stop-loss in, right after I enter a trade, but mainly I was just curious if you do a stop-loss "market" order or "limit" order.. Normally I put in a "market" order just in case it blows past it and doesn't get filled using a "limit" order . . But, I realize the Market Makers can have a hay-day with this. .

Also, enjoy your blog, and learned so much with the Fib retracements. I made a trade today using it on VMW, and it worked out great. .


greytrader said...

Even with market stop loss orders you get slippage. You also have the spread between the bid and the ask. Very often there will be little or no transactions at you limit price. It makes no sense using a limit stop, you would not get filled more than half of the time and end up with big losses.

You can use limit orders to enter and exit trades at target.

bl said...

I hear TraderX about joyg: 15" too many upper shadows/tails. Guess the 8/15 gravestone sealed its fate. FWLT 2/15 doji looked appealing to short. Traded BOBJ short 2/15 inside doji-ish as an experiment b/e. 5/30 or 12/15 would have been better with the 5 ema. Long WRNC 6/30 not close enough to 5ema. 5/30 12/15 better and rallied to the close. Oh boy I left a short order open and went to work...CIT was tripped, down $80!! Embarrassed for myself with FCX: 23 market days ago it was 75 now 105 or $1,300/day increase on 75k or 40%. Not bad. Might as well have a watchlist of winners and buy them on market daily reversals. Only once have I made more than $1300 on a 50K account

bl said...

edit- "5/30" to

OONR7 said...

bl: joyg actually didn't look so bad on the 5-min. But yes, the shooting start on the :15 (11:15) was a definite sell sign... that I bumbled (I was also managing FCX at the time).

john s: I did reply concerning the stop loss in the comments section that day. I always use market orders for stop loss. Slippage, no slippage... I want out. If I partial out of an order, I place my stop 2 cents below/above the potential exit candle bar.

And, oh my, excellent job with VMW. Wow. Not sure why I didn't get that.

fw: the market has a way of letting you know who's in charge some days.